Monday, November 30, 2009

And it just gets classier...

Now, I want to make it clear that I'm not some tirading U fan clinging onto the poor examples of sportsmanship and downright ridiculous conduct of this particular picture of a Y fan attacking Whittinghams daughter and wife (cause apparently it's the women and children who this guy decided was the best target for his idiocy) nor Max Hall's emotional outburst to prove some "BYU sucks too" point. No no no. I think it's a fine institution and anyone who thinks differently probably has never been there and experienced that great campus. I worked there for a time and I'd work there again in an instant.

And as we've all mentioned, the U has some real morons as well and I'm sure if there had been a camera phone quick enough to capture Hall's fam getting doused by beer - the U would receive backlash as well (as they should!). However, I think what's important here is to recognize that we can't make generalized statements about anyone, anything, any institution, because those words will ALWAYS come back and bite us in the arse. I'm sure the relief Hall felt getting his emotions out is nothing compared to the regret he has now... maybe not so much that he said something stupid... but that he is the leader of the BYU Football team who said something stupid for everyone to hear. A lesson for all of us to think before we speak and maybe consider we're not as awesome as we think we are either.

Just as not ALL Ute fans are drunken jerks, not all Y fans would attack a woman and her child merely because they are from the opposing team (which is even weirder because... dude... BYU won if you didn't notice). The guy pictured below does not represent the entire BYU student body, their fans, nor their programs... but between him and Max Hall, they've both fueled the hate between these two teams by their irresponsible actions. Shame on you guys.

And maybe as an EXAMPLE of class...

"University of Utah athletic department officials, including head football coach Kyle Whittingham, have declined to respond to BYU quarterback Max Hall's postgame tirade on Saturday. Sports information director Liz Abel said it was a BYU institutional matter. She also said Whittingham has declined to comment on reports that his wife, Jamie, suffered a cut lip in a fan-related incident after the game."

BYU football: Max Hall reprimanded by Mountain West Conference

Honestly - though his apology wasn't entirely believable "It was not intended to be directed at the entire organization and all of their fans and I apologize that it came out that way."

Cause really Hall, I'm pretty sure you knew exactly what was coming out... HOWEVER...

I have to sympathize with the guy. Truly, he held a justified vendetta against U fans that he said assaulted HIS family as well. I too think the people who did that are complete morons and nothing could justify such behavior. I think that mixed with a very hurt ego last year, created some rage in Hall he finally let spill out. It happens to all of us. But maybe next time, we should all take a lesson from an older, more mature and experienced man who's family was ALSO assaulted by Y fans and not comment at all. Kyle Whittingham has shown some true class here and I think Hall has learned his lesson perhaps the hard way. But we can be sure he'll never forget it.


Scott said...

The rivalry is fun. My family is full of BYU fans, and we have a good time with the banter.

But this makes me sick to my stomach.

It's not a question of which side is classless: obviously it is irrational to project the classlessness of a few onto an entire organization. But it is this type of irrationality--from either side--that is not only classless, not fun, and unsportsmanlike, but dangerous.

This kind of irrational projection of hatred is scary.

In sports you often hear players say that they use unpleasant events (like the beer throwing) as motivation. Obviously it's a good thing to get pumped up: but should raw hatred be used for this? Why can't you be motivated by personal goals? My concern is that Hall will serve as an example that it's okay to hate in some circumstances. And from Bronco's comments, I wonder if he encouraged this kind of thinking.

Hate is bad against your enemies in life, politics, and yes, Max and Bronco, even football. Regardless of the context.

Scott said...

Armchair psychology is fun.

I get an odd pleasure of reading the lives of celebrities as if they're novels. I think you're right that he projected his own feelings of inadequacy onto Utah as a whole. The ego is a powerful thing.

Think of it this way: last year Max had the belief that he was a great athlete and that great athletes win big games. Well, right from the get-go there's problem with that belief. The fact is that many great athletes have lost big games. But when BYU lost Max's belief system was shaken. He either had to believe that he wasn't a great athlete and that's why he lost, or that it's okay to lose. Unable to accept either, he projected this crisis of belief onto an external object: Utah. This is simple psychology: an underachiever either has to reevaluate his or her goals, or be forced to put the blame somewhere; usually on the self or others. We haven't seen Max EVER take the blame for a poor performance.

The actual truth is that he is a good athlete (really, I mean this. He might not be as good as others, but he's pretty good) and that it's okay to lose if you become better through the experience.

Sometimes you just have to accept that you're not Steve Young or Ty Demeter.

Andrea Jolene said...

Mmm - Steve Young. Hot! ;)

Scott said...

Umm - Steve Young. Married! ;)

Lisa said...

Generalizing is part of what a rivalry is. Honestly, who speaks specifically when they talk about the other team or school? Would you really expect anyone to say, "I hate the Utah fans who are drunk and do stupid things, but you know, the others aren't so bad. In fact, I know that there are many good LDS people who attend Utah and that it's a great University!"? Generalizing and compartmentalizing others is a human thing. You say it's irrational when in fact it's more rational to generalize. It's what humans do to save time.

But you know, you said yourself how Utah fans are in your previous post: "Ute fans [...] WILL punch you in the face and speak all manner of deragtory comments against your mother if you provoke them. [...] UTE fans can be VERY mean, REAL WORLD MEAN..." Ute fans WILL knock you out, so you better leave them alone! Things were personal for Hall--I'd be bitter too if there was a blowup doll of my mom and someone simulating sex with it in the stands. He carried this around for a year and his comment was emotional. However, I don't think what he said deserved this much uproar and I don't think his follow-up apology was insincere. Why the uproar when Max Hall calls this behavior classless? Don't justify this behavior saying "it is how it is, it's what they do" and then try to equate Max Hall's obnoxious words with assault. I'm over people putting BYU in a fishbowl and watching its every move, waiting for any mistake to be made. And if a BYU fan gets punched in the face by a Utah fan? Well, he was just poking an angry rattlesnake with a stick. It's to be expected. You said it yourself.

And about the picture. Every news story I've watched or read states she appeared to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was an altercation between a BYU fan and a Utah fan according to police reports (I guess the BYU fan taking pictures whose cell phone was grabbed and thrown onto the field by the Utah fan shouldn't have provoked the rattlesnake). It was not a BYU fan "attacking Whittinghams daughter and wife" as you wrote. No police reports have been filed involving the Whittinghams. You say they are being classy by not commenting, but would you really just say, "Nope, no comment," if your wife and child were attacked? If there were any truth to her being attacked and pictures showing who did it, don't you think they'd file a police report?

It's a rivalry. BYU won, Utah lost. Until next year, everyone go home.

Andrea Jolene said...

Ha ha ha! Lisa - hello - it's called STEREOTYPING. Human rational? A human thing? Oh... I see the logic here - if it saves time and humans do it - it's acceptable. Might as well break the speed limits... it saves time... might as well go through the fast food line everyday and add to America's obesity epidemic... it saves time... Well here's my human rational for you then "All Lisa's rationalize bad behavior as acceptable because it was done by a human." That saves time for me so I don't have to go interview every single Lisa to see if they think the word "hate" can be rationalized by someone's pent up anger. Does that fit into your logic? I'm a Ute fan. I don't drink. And I didn't dump it on Max's fam. But according to his "human rational" he hates me. Yeah... makes LOADS of sense. Try again.

Andrea Jolene said...

Oh and...

"Would you really expect anyone to say, "I hate the Utah fans who are drunk and do stupid things, but you know, the others aren't so bad. In fact, I know that there are many good LDS people who attend Utah and that it's a great University!"?"

Uh... DUH???

R* said...

my .02 on the comments, not on the original post:

Oh... I see the logic here - if it saves time and humans do it - it's acceptable.

hmm. i didn't see lisa make any reference to either "logic" or "acceptable" behavior. her comment merely pointed out human nature or tendencies to expect; how our brains are programmed; that human beings, when presented with any stimuli, naturally deal in the general then narrow down to specifics (typically in that order).

...But according to his "human rational" he hates me. Yeah... makes LOADS of sense. Try again.

hmm. no. YOU try again. your blog and your comments read like stream of consciousness so there's plenty of room for miscommunication, but i think a more accurate statement would read "according to MY human rationalE, he hates me."

by saying it's his rationale and he hates you you've unconsciously made yet another general statement, probably to save time, eh? Wouldn't Hall would probably more accurately not care at all spending any time finding out specifically how "classy" you may or may not be in real life?

Crowther said...

Lisa although generalizing is a human thing it is also something that has been proven to be wrong time and time again. Provided that that statement is negative. Plus we also know that people will get upset when the generalizations do not accurately reflect the entire group. This happens all the time in politics, religion and every other group people associate themselves with. Plus if we were to generalize all the time I think it would be rather difficult to communicate, and since language is constantly being expanded we know that that is false.
@R* your right logic wasn't referenced but maybe it should have been. and by maybe I mean definitely.